John Paul II's pedophile priests abuse hearing hinges on memory, time
Benedict XVI and the Opus Dei who has a battalion of members who are lawyers and judges are working 24/7 to persuade - the courts to count as nothing - the past memories and experiences of the thousands of victims of the John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army www.jp2army.blogspot.com and God's Rottweiler www.pope-ratz.blogspot.com
But John Paul II will always have the Achilles Heel of his John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army which will cost him his canonization to sainthood.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090821/NEWS02/908210340/Priest+abuse+hearing+hinges+on+decades-old+memory
Priest abuse hearing hinges on memory, time
By Robert King
Posted: August 21, 2009
* Read Comments(32)
John Doe RG, as he is known in court papers, always struggled with trusting people. Personal relationships usually lasted no more than a year. His second-guessing of his bosses sent him hopping from job to job.But it wasn't until 2003 that his therapist asked him a question that would unravel his life and rattle the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Indianapolis: "Do you have any sexual abuse in your past?""I sat there for a second and it was like a light switch went on," he said in an interview with The Indianapolis Star. "I just remember staring at the bookcase in front of me. I said, 'Yeah, there was an incident with a priest.' "
That memory, unlocked after lying dormant since the mid-1970s, is the subject of a court hearing today in Marion County that will prove critical to the course of John Doe RG's lawsuit against the archdiocese -- a somewhat unusual claim in Indiana because it is based on what psychiatrists refer to as "repressed memories."
The Star generally does not identify victims of sexual assault.
Normally, cases of childhood abuse must be filed by a victim's 20th birthday. But Judge David Dreyer must decide whether to grant an exception for John Doe RG, who filed his at age 40, based on the argument that he had no memory of the abuse until he was 38.
Attorney Patrick Noaker, representing John Doe RG, says the statute doesn't apply when a victim recovers his memory of childhood abuse later in life. He says his client had a two-year window to file the case from the time he recovered the memory, a deadline he beat by three days.
Attorney Jay Mercer, representing the archdiocese, says there's not enough scientific consensus about the concept of repressed memories to grant such an exception to the statute of limitations.
Repressed-memory cases are relatively rare in Indiana, said Henry Karlson, an emeritus professor of law at Indiana University. But state courts have recognized the phenomena and allowed it to be used as a basis for staying, or extending, the statutes of limitation.
John Doe RG, a former altar boy at St. Andrew Catholic Church, said memories came back to him of a priest named Harry Monroe, who John Doe RG says sexually abused him in the church rectory and on camping trips.
Monroe was assigned to parishes in Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Tell City from 1974 to 1984. The lawsuit John Doe RG filed in 2005 was the first of 13 that alleged Monroe was a child molester and that the archdiocese either neglected to protect children or, in some cases, kept the abuse hidden from public view.
Monroe was never prosecuted, because the criminal statutes of limitations had expired. Now out of the priesthood and living in Tennessee, he admitted in a deposition that he sexually molested at least five of the 13 boys who brought allegations. He wouldn't rule out others but said he couldn't remember. One of the cases he wouldn't confirm was that of John Doe RG.Of the 13 lawsuits, John Doe RG's is the only one to involve repressed memories.
To support their positions in the case, both sides have secured Harvard University experts to testify.
The archdiocese has turned to Dr. Harrison Pope, a professor of psychiatry who asserts, according to court documents, that there are serious questions about repressed memories in the scientific community and that there is a lack of consensus on the disorder, which some say is overly diagnosed.
John Doe RG has turned to Dr. James A. Chu, an associate professor of psychiatry, who says the only doubters of repressed memory are those who work in laboratories and aren't treating patients. Among clinicians, he said, there is no real debate. And although there's no biological test for the accuracy of a recovered memory, his experience with those that can be verified has been that they are amazingly accurate.
Until John Doe RG filed his suit, there had been no publicity about Monroe's abuse.
Yet Noaker said the memory he retold bore strong similarities to the dozen cases that would follow -- abuse that took place on camping trips and in St. Andrew's church rectory. His mother also remembered John Doe RG going on camping trips with Monroe.
The recovery of the memories in 2003 sent John Doe RG's life into a tailspin.
Over the course of eight sessions, he said, he began remembering bits and pieces of the abuse.
Throughout his life, he's had an aversion to baby powder. John Doe RG remembered Monroe using baby powder during one of their encounters. Memories came back in other settings, too, even during sex. Things got so bad that John Doe RG, now a 44-year-old business executive who lives out of state, found himself sobbing at his desk at work during the middle of the day.
"At that point, the lid was off Pandora's box," John Doe RG said. "And I looked inside."In today's hearing, the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim.
Mercer said the legal avenues that typically allow a case to go forward so long after the normal statute of limitations has expired don't apply here. He said discovering the abuse late in life has been rejected in Indiana courts as a reason to allow a case involving a childhood injury to go forward. And Mercer said the church can't have concealed information about abuse that the plaintiff didn't remember for 28 years.
Finally, he said John Doe RG waited almost two years to file his lawsuit after recovering his memory. Mercer said Indiana courts require cases to be brought in a "reasonable" amount of time. And some courts have said waiting even 13 months is too long to be "reasonable."
That, said Noaker, the attorney for John Doe RG, is going to be up to the judge to decide.
Comments
jstempko wrote:
They need to weed out the sex perverts BEFORE they go to the seminary. It's a hard life to give up women but they should not turn to little boys.
If found suspicious the Archbishop should fire these guys BEFORE they cause trouble - Multi-Million dollar lawsuits.
Same thing for Nuns.
8/23/2009 8:24:13 AM
They need to weed out the sex perverts BEFORE they go to the seminary. It's a hard life to give up women but they should not turn to little boys.
If found suspicious the Archbishop should fire these guys BEFORE they cause trouble - Multi-Million dollar lawsuits.
Same thing for Nuns. jstempko
They need to weed out the sex perverts BEFORE they go to the seminary. It's a hard life to give up women but they should not turn to little boys.
If found suspicious the Archbishop should fire these guys BEFORE they cause trouble - Multi-Million dollar lawsuits.
Same thing for Nuns.jstempko
otherview2 wrote:
As a victim of sexual abuse by a priest in the Catholic church some 30 some years ago (and I remember all of it) for me to blame my successes and/or failures on what happen since then I believe is wrong. I am accountable for what I did with my life after the abuse. For me to sue the church for what happened that far back in my life for me would be a selfish act of greed and revenge. Where do the Gospel and the word of God fit into this? “For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6: 14)”.
If they are still molesting children, I agree they need to be stopped but to seek revenge on those from year gone and make the whole church suffer is also wrong. Remember it is God who is the final judge and who has the final judgment on all involved in this matter.
8/22/2009 11:10:08 PM
As a victim of sexual abuse by a priest in the Catholic church some 30 some years ago (and I remember all of it) for me to blame my successes and/or failures on what happen since then I believe is wrong. I am accountable for what I did with my life after the abuse. For me to sue the church for what happened that far back in my life for me would be a selfish act of greed and revenge. Where do the Gospel and the word of God fit into this? “For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6: 14)”.
If they are still molesting children, I agree they need to be stopped but to seek revenge on those from year gone and make the whole church suffer is also wrong. Remember it is God who is the final judge and who has the final judgment on all involved in this matter.
otherview2
As a victim of sexual abuse by a priest in the Catholic church some 30 some years ago (and I remember all of it) for me to blame my successes and/or failures on what happen since then I believe is wrong. I am accountable for what I did with my life after the abuse. For me to sue the church for what happened that far back in my life for me would be a selfish act of greed and revenge. Where do the Gospel and the word of God fit into this? “For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6: 14)”.
If they are still molesting children, I agree they need to be stopped but to seek revenge on those from year gone and make the whole church suffer is also wrong. Remember it is God who is the final judge and who has the final judgment on all involved in this matter.
otherview2
JustTheFactsLady wrote:
Replying to TomDunwurkin:
Replying to SarahTX2:
You'd have less raped children if you got rid of the Priests. What a connundrum!
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
A former Pastor of mine once said "That being the Vicar of Christ thing, is a bit**" :)
8/22/2009 8:40:55 AM
A former Pastor of mine once said "That being the Vicar of Christ thing, is a bit**" :) JustTheFactsLady
A former Pastor of mine once said "That being the Vicar of Christ thing, is a bit**" :)JustTheFactsLady
AnotherSurvivor wrote:
I am also a survivor of priest sexual abuse, and a "John Doe" that has come forth legally. I wish it were easy for me to convey the intense importance of what is occurring right now with the clergy sexual molestation is this country, its laws, and here specifically, Monroe. There is so much incredible fear, confusion with disbelief, mistrust and utter disorientation from clergy sexual molestation that the mind is just left betrayed and so mistrusting that any person, even yourself can barely, if at all, cognate. It is all too surreal to express in any cogent fashion. I hope the courtswill not focus on distractions and outdated laws. I hope the medidcal community will listen to reality. I hope sexual predetors learn that they and the churches that harbor them are held accountable and prosecuted. I want the public to be more aware and sensitive to this crisis, and that other survivors of molestation find a way through this fight towards a peace. Thank you for letting me speak.
8/22/2009 12:23:19 AM
I am also a survivor of priest sexual abuse, and a "John Doe" that has come forth legally. I wish it were easy for me to convey the intense importance of what is occurring right now with the clergy sexual molestation is this country, its laws, and here specifically, Monroe. There is so much incredible fear, confusion with disbelief, mistrust and utter disorientation from clergy sexual molestation that the mind is just left betrayed and so mistrusting that any person, even yourself can barely, if at all, cognate. It is all too surreal to express in any cogent fashion. I hope the courtswill not focus on distractions and outdated laws. I hope the medidcal community will listen to reality. I hope sexual predetors learn that they and the churches that harbor them are held accountable and prosecuted. I want the public to be more aware and sensitive to this crisis, and that other survivors of molestation find a way through this fight towards a peace. Thank you for letting me speak. AnotherSurvivor
I am also a survivor of priest sexual abuse, and a "John Doe" that has come forth legally. I wish it were easy for me to convey the intense importance of what is occurring right now with the clergy sexual molestation is this country, its laws, and here specifically, Monroe. There is so much incredible fear, confusion with disbelief, mistrust and utter disorientation from clergy sexual molestation that the mind is just left betrayed and so mistrusting that any person, even yourself can barely, if at all, cognate. It is all too surreal to express in any cogent fashion. I hope the courtswill not focus on distractions and outdated laws. I hope the medidcal community will listen to reality. I hope sexual predetors learn that they and the churches that harbor them are held accountable and prosecuted. I want the public to be more aware and sensitive to this crisis, and that other survivors of molestation find a way through this fight towards a peace. Thank you for letting me speak.AnotherSurvivor
TomDunwurkin wrote:
Replying to SarahTX2:
You'd have less raped children if you got rid of the Priests. What a connundrum!
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
SarahTX2 wrote:
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
8/21/2009 3:29:58 PM
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish. SarahTX2
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.SarahTX2
TomDunwurkin wrote:
Well written and to the point. The problem lays within the problem.
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
[/QUOTE]
8/21/2009 1:07:17 PM
Well written and to the point. The problem lays within the problem.
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
[/QUOTE]
TomDunwurkin
Well written and to the point. The problem lays within the problem.
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
[/QUOTE]
TomDunwurkin
SMPTURLISH wrote:
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
8/21/2009 12:47:27 PM
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
SMPTURLISH
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
SMPTURLISH
SMPTURLISH wrote:
The institutional church has failed miserably to protect children in the past by operating beyond the pale of both charity and justice while they would have us believe now that they are operating under the ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY they promised in 2002.
However, their ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY appear to be highly selective.
Many dioceses still refuse to list the names and locations of convicted, known or credibly accused priests of their dioceses or of the religious orders who operate in the diocese at their pleasure.
They refuse to support LEGISLATIVE REFORM that would better protect all children by completely removing ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION going forward in regard to childhood sexual abuse AND providing for a civil window of at least two years for bringing forward previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse BY ANYONE!
8/21/2009 12:46:17 PM
The institutional church has failed miserably to protect children in the past by operating beyond the pale of both charity and justice while they would have us believe now that they are operating under the ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY they promised in 2002.
However, their ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY appear to be highly selective.
Many dioceses still refuse to list the names and locations of convicted, known or credibly accused priests of their dioceses or of the religious orders who operate in the diocese at their pleasure.
They refuse to support LEGISLATIVE REFORM that would better protect all children by completely removing ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION going forward in regard to childhood sexual abuse AND providing for a civil window of at least two years for bringing forward previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse BY ANYONE! SMPTURLISH
The institutional church has failed miserably to protect children in the past by operating beyond the pale of both charity and justice while they would have us believe now that they are operating under the ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY they promised in 2002.
However, their ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY appear to be highly selective.
Many dioceses still refuse to list the names and locations of convicted, known or credibly accused priests of their dioceses or of the religious orders who operate in the diocese at their pleasure.
They refuse to support LEGISLATIVE REFORM that would better protect all children by completely removing ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION going forward in regard to childhood sexual abuse AND providing for a civil window of at least two years for bringing forward previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse BY ANYONE!SMPTURLISH
SMPTURLISH wrote:
IT WAS DONE IN DELAWARE AND IT CAN BE DONE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.
Too many church leaders are trying to squirm out of their responsibility by hiding behind laws that have been woefully inadequate to protect of children to begin with, that they did not observe in a timely fashion anyway, and now have the chutzpah to cite the same laws in order to escape responsibility.
JUSTICE LIKE CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME. IT DOESN'T STOP THERE BUT IT SURE DOES START THERE.
The Holy See was an original signatory to the UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD.
Isn't it time to start acting as if this document were believed? Or is it still the same old -
DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com
8/21/2009 12:45:23 PM
IT WAS DONE IN DELAWARE AND IT CAN BE DONE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.
Too many church leaders are trying to squirm out of their responsibility by hiding behind laws that have been woefully inadequate to protect of children to begin with, that they did not observe in a timely fashion anyway, and now have the chutzpah to cite the same laws in order to escape responsibility.
JUSTICE LIKE CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME. IT DOESN'T STOP THERE BUT IT SURE DOES START THERE.
The Holy See was an original signatory to the UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD.
Isn't it time to start acting as if this document were believed? Or is it still the same old -
DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com SMPTURLISH
nathanial66 wrote:
If all the child molesting Catholic Priests were rounded up, there wouldn't be enough Catholic Priests left to "head" the Catholic Churches!!
8/21/2009 12:43:08 PM
If all the child molesting Catholic Priests were rounded up, there wouldn't be enough Catholic Priests left to "head" the Catholic Churches!! nathanial66
If all the child molesting Catholic Priests were rounded up, there wouldn't be enough Catholic Priests left to "head" the Catholic Churches!!nathanial66
TomDunwurkin wrote:
It is the entire Church and everyone that tithes the Catholic church, you can include everyone the gives in any monetary way to the Church. Much of it is all funnelled to defending the thousands, (yes, thousands over the years) of "men of the cloth", that have use religion and their position in the church to abuse mankind. I've said it before and it still stands - there are millions of Catholics who blindly go through life, without lifting their voice to this poisoning of their own denomination. They believe throwing money at the church will buy their place in heaven. Been there, done that, I know! Millions of Catholics who spend their hour or two in church each week, only to leave and cuss at the driver in the lot in front of them and talk about the woman in the next pew who's dress was too short.
DO NOT CONNECT THESE FIENDS with Christianity. They themselves continue to pave their way to their own reward. Can I get another Amen?
8/21/2009 12:35:33 PM
It is the entire Church and everyone that tithes the Catholic church, you can include everyone the gives in any monetary way to the Church. Much of it is all funnelled to defending the thousands, (yes, thousands over the years) of "men of the cloth", that have use religion and their position in the church to abuse mankind. I've said it before and it still stands - there are millions of Catholics who blindly go through life, without lifting their voice to this poisoning of their own denomination. They believe throwing money at the church will buy their place in heaven. Been there, done that, I know! Millions of Catholics who spend their hour or two in church each week, only to leave and cuss at the driver in the lot in front of them and talk about the woman in the next pew who's dress was too short.
DO NOT CONNECT THESE FIENDS with Christianity. They themselves continue to pave their way to their own reward. Can I get another Amen? TomDunwurkin
It is the entire Church and everyone that tithes the Catholic church, you can include everyone the gives in any monetary way to the Church. Much of it is all funnelled to defending the thousands, (yes, thousands over the years) of "men of the cloth", that have use religion and their position in the church to abuse mankind. I've said it before and it still stands - there are millions of Catholics who blindly go through life, without lifting their voice to this poisoning of their own denomination. They believe throwing money at the church will buy their place in heaven. Been there, done that, I know! Millions of Catholics who spend their hour or two in church each week, only to leave and cuss at the driver in the lot in front of them and talk about the woman in the next pew who's dress was too short.
DO NOT CONNECT THESE FIENDS with Christianity. They themselves continue to pave their way to their own reward. Can I get another Amen?TomDunwurkin
Helpmeagain wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church may be the only institution in history to have survived such a pervasive culture of abuse, cover-up and denial! It's especially distastful because the very men that have ruined so many lives have used religion, Christianity and a previously good reputation to perpetrate their dirty deeds. When will people wake up and realize that the highest levels of the church in Philly, Boston and possibly Indianapolis have looked the other way while lives have been ruined? It's immoral and likely criminal!
8/21/2009 11:29:06 AM
The Roman Catholic Church may be the only institution in history to have survived such a pervasive culture of abuse, cover-up and denial! It's especially distastful because the very men that have ruined so many lives have used religion, Christianity and a previously good reputation to perpetrate their dirty deeds. When will people wake up and realize that the highest levels of the church in Philly, Boston and possibly Indianapolis have looked the other way while lives have been ruined? It's immoral and likely criminal! Helpmeagain
The Roman Catholic Church may be the only institution in history to have survived such a pervasive culture of abuse, cover-up and denial! It's especially distastful because the very men that have ruined so many lives have used religion, Christianity and a previously good reputation to perpetrate their dirty deeds. When will people wake up and realize that the highest levels of the church in Philly, Boston and possibly Indianapolis have looked the other way while lives have been ruined? It's immoral and likely criminal!Helpmeagain
User Image
jarfrank wrote:
Replying to indybski:
Replying to jarfrank:
faith.
So, married men never cheat? Never break their vows? Never abuse young boys? No, marriage for Catholic priests to avoid abuse is not logical.
1st Corinthians - chapter 7 - look it up. My comment has nothing to do with adultery, that is a separate issue. Sure there are men out there that are married and are pedifiles. However, the abuse to young boys seems to be very problematic for the catholic church. #1 The problem has been identified - priest have been malesting and abusing young boys. #2 A possible solution - allow priests to be married. The bible tells you that it is extremely difficult to not have a mate - this (among other bible verses) makes my argument extremely logical. The church used to allow its priest to be married.
8/21/2009 11:13:48 AM
jarfrank
jarfrank
User Image
SNAPnetwork wrote:
Fourth, if (& that’s a big IF) any parish is closing anywhere that's in any way connected with pedophile priests & complicit church officials, it's the pedophile priests & complicit church officials who are the cause, not the brave victims who are coming forward to seek justice, expose predators, protect kids, & make the church a more healthy & safe institution.
Fifth, all kinds of "older cases" come before courts these days. Under President George W. Bush, the US Dept. of Justice set up a special task force to investigate & pursue criminal charges against racists in the deep South who hurt civil rights volunteers in the 1950s & 1960s. More than a dozen such criminals have been convicted. So let's not assume that criminals who conceal child sex crimes can't, or shouldn't, be subject to criminal probes.
David Clohessy, National Director, SNAP-Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, 7234 Arsenal Street, St. Louis MO 63143, 314 566 9790 cell, SNAPclohessy@aol.com, SNAPnetwork.org
8/21/2009 11:12:40 AM
SNAPnetwork wrote:
Let's clear up a few myths here.
First, some parishes in Boston are closing. But it's because of declining attendance, fewer priests, “white flight,” suburban sprawl, & many other sociological & demographic factors that pre-date & are independent of the church’s on going clergy sex abuse & cover up crisis.
Second, Catholic officials are incredibly secretive about church wealth & finances. So bishops can claim their costs are increasing for ANY reason & there’s no independent oversight that can prove or disprove what they’re saying.
Third, the overwhelming majority of clergy sex abuse settlements are covered by insurance policies that bishops have paid for decades ago.
8/21/2009 11:11:33 AM
Let's clear up a few myths here.
First, some parishes in Boston are closing. But it's because of declining attendance, fewer priests, “white flight,” suburban sprawl, & many other sociological & demographic factors that pre-date & are independent of the church’s on going clergy sex abuse & cover up crisis.
Second, Catholic officials are incredibly secretive about church wealth & finances. So bishops can claim their costs are increasing for ANY reason & there’s no independent oversight that can prove or disprove what they’re saying.
Third, the overwhelming majority of clergy sex abuse settlements are covered by insurance policies that bishops have paid for decades ago. SNAPnetwork
Let's clear up a few myths here.
First, some parishes in Boston are closing. But it's because of declining attendance, fewer priests, “white flight,” suburban sprawl, & many other sociological & demographic factors that pre-date & are independent of the church’s on going clergy sex abuse & cover up crisis.
Second, Catholic officials are incredibly secretive about church wealth & finances. So bishops can claim their costs are increasing for ANY reason & there’s no independent oversight that can prove or disprove what they’re saying.
Third, the overwhelming majority of clergy sex abuse settlements are covered by insurance policies that bishops have paid for decades ago.SNAPnetwork
hrhhrh wrote:
Regarding repressed memory: I have a friend who was raped and molested by his father, the organist and other members of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral in Pittsburgh, when he was a toddler. He had no memory of this until about age 40 when he saw a fact-based movie of a boy (Steven Stayner) who was kidnapped by a pedophile and kept prisoner for seven years. Then, horrific images and memories began to emerge, causing him unspeakable suffering and pain. No therapist was involved until some years later. The memories emerged without coaching of any kind.
In the intervening years he has learned much about his father, the organist and others involved. He has no doubts about what happened and who did those monstrous things to him.
I have know him since he was a college student. He was living a happy, successful life until he saw that movie. Since then, he has become a physical and emotional wreck. My heart bleeds for him.
Repressed memory IS real.
8/21/2009 11:08:56 AM
Regarding repressed memory: I have a friend who was raped and molested by his father, the organist and other members of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral in Pittsburgh, when he was a toddler. He had no memory of this until about age 40 when he saw a fact-based movie of a boy (Steven Stayner) who was kidnapped by a pedophile and kept prisoner for seven years. Then, horrific images and memories began to emerge, causing him unspeakable suffering and pain. No therapist was involved until some years later. The memories emerged without coaching of any kind.
In the intervening years he has learned much about his father, the organist and others involved. He has no doubts about what happened and who did those monstrous things to him.
I have know him since he was a college student. He was living a happy, successful life until he saw that movie. Since then, he has become a physical and emotional wreck. My heart bleeds for him.
Repressed memory IS real. hrhhrh
Regarding repressed memory: I have a friend who was raped and molested by his father, the organist and other members of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral in Pittsburgh, when he was a toddler. He had no memory of this until about age 40 when he saw a fact-based movie of a boy (Steven Stayner) who was kidnapped by a pedophile and kept prisoner for seven years. Then, horrific images and memories began to emerge, causing him unspeakable suffering and pain. No therapist was involved until some years later. The memories emerged without coaching of any kind.
In the intervening years he has learned much about his father, the organist and others involved. He has no doubts about what happened and who did those monstrous things to him.
I have know him since he was a college student. He was living a happy, successful life until he saw that movie. Since then, he has become a physical and emotional wreck. My heart bleeds for him.
Repressed memory IS real.hrhhrh
wowww wrote:
There is much MISINFORMATION from bloggers here from not actually reading what others have said or telling mistruths. For the person responding to letting priest marry, NO ONE mentioned anything about marriage to cover up abuse. T the person who said thousands of priests have abused is not true either. There have been many cases, but exaggerating facts is a lie. For the nut who suggested the "victim" is being abused by the Church (3 decades later no less) for not paying restitution is a result of irrational thinking that revenge will in some way make things better. I say to those who have zero involvement whatsoever, YOU seek a form of therapy to resolve whatever drives your need to feel so emotionally attached to something that doesn't involve you. How "devout" of a Christian can you really be and be a member of any religion, Catholicism not withstanding and make hateful comments you've made?
8/21/2009 10:57:19 AM
There is much MISINFORMATION from bloggers here from not actually reading what others have said or telling mistruths. For the person responding to letting priest marry, NO ONE mentioned anything about marriage to cover up abuse. T the person who said thousands of priests have abused is not true either. There have been many cases, but exaggerating facts is a lie. For the nut who suggested the "victim" is being abused by the Church (3 decades later no less) for not paying restitution is a result of irrational thinking that revenge will in some way make things better. I say to those who have zero involvement whatsoever, YOU seek a form of therapy to resolve whatever drives your need to feel so emotionally attached to something that doesn't involve you. How "devout" of a Christian can you really be and be a member of any religion, Catholicism not withstanding and make hateful comments you've made? wowww
There is much MISINFORMATION from bloggers here from not actually reading what others have said or telling mistruths. For the person responding to letting priest marry, NO ONE mentioned anything about marriage to cover up abuse. T the person who said thousands of priests have abused is not true either. There have been many cases, but exaggerating facts is a lie. For the nut who suggested the "victim" is being abused by the Church (3 decades later no less) for not paying restitution is a result of irrational thinking that revenge will in some way make things better. I say to those who have zero involvement whatsoever, YOU seek a form of therapy to resolve whatever drives your need to feel so emotionally attached to something that doesn't involve you. How "devout" of a Christian can you really be and be a member of any religion, Catholicism not withstanding and make hateful comments you've made?wowww
wowww wrote:
Frankly, the Church should NOT be liable for actions of renegade priests decades after the fact. I question the motive(s) after 3 decades in this case of filing a lawsuit (and waiting until 3 days before the end of the 2 year statute of limitations to do so is really suspect). I also question statute of limitation laws that give one person a different set of limitations than another for the same acts. Evil is a two way street evidently.
8/21/2009 10:43:20 AM
Frankly, the Church should NOT be liable for actions of renegade priests decades after the fact. I question the motive(s) after 3 decades in this case of filing a lawsuit (and waiting until 3 days before the end of the 2 year statute of limitations to do so is really suspect). I also question statute of limitation laws that give one person a different set of limitations than another for the same acts. Evil is a two way street evidently. wowww
Frankly, the Church should NOT be liable for actions of renegade priests decades after the fact. I question the motive(s) after 3 decades in this case of filing a lawsuit (and waiting until 3 days before the end of the 2 year statute of limitations to do so is really suspect). I also question statute of limitation laws that give one person a different set of limitations than another for the same acts. Evil is a two way street evidently.wowww
indybski wrote:
Replying to jarfrank:
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
So, married men never cheat? Never break their vows? Never abuse young boys? No, marriage for Catholic priests to avoid abuse is not logical.
8/21/2009 9:42:38 AM
indybski wrote:
The "Church", with a capital "C", in Roman Catholic terms, is the Family of God. As a whole, we are NOT abusers. There have been priests, to be sure, and perhaps even religouis sisters, who abused children in their care, and the history of handling of those cases has obvioulsy been poor. I would never defend the administrative decisions that were made, except to say that 25 to 40 years ago, our understanding of adult predatory behavior was not what it is today. For example, during WWII, the family doctor told my grandmother to take up smoking to calm her nerves when her son, my dad, was taken POW in northern Italy. Today, of course, we would sue for malpractice, since we know smoking is so unhealthy. Back then, we just did not know. So, accuse an entire Religion of abuse is wrong. What is also forgotten in this discussion is, that in every "occupation" or vocation, there are people who are mentally ill-pedafiles, sadists, pornographers...not just the priestly vocation.
8/21/2009 9:37:38 AM
The "Church", with a capital "C", in Roman Catholic terms, is the Family of God. As a whole, we are NOT abusers. There have been priests, to be sure, and perhaps even religouis sisters, who abused children in their care, and the history of handling of those cases has obvioulsy been poor. I would never defend the administrative decisions that were made, except to say that 25 to 40 years ago, our understanding of adult predatory behavior was not what it is today. For example, during WWII, the family doctor told my grandmother to take up smoking to calm her nerves when her son, my dad, was taken POW in northern Italy. Today, of course, we would sue for malpractice, since we know smoking is so unhealthy. Back then, we just did not know. So, accuse an entire Religion of abuse is wrong. What is also forgotten in this discussion is, that in every "occupation" or vocation, there are people who are mentally ill-pedafiles, sadists, pornographers...not just the priestly vocation. indybski
The "Church", with a capital "C", in Roman Catholic terms, is the Family of God. As a whole, we are NOT abusers. There have been priests, to be sure, and perhaps even religouis sisters, who abused children in their care, and the history of handling of those cases has obvioulsy been poor. I would never defend the administrative decisions that were made, except to say that 25 to 40 years ago, our understanding of adult predatory behavior was not what it is today. For example, during WWII, the family doctor told my grandmother to take up smoking to calm her nerves when her son, my dad, was taken POW in northern Italy. Today, of course, we would sue for malpractice, since we know smoking is so unhealthy. Back then, we just did not know. So, accuse an entire Religion of abuse is wrong. What is also forgotten in this discussion is, that in every "occupation" or vocation, there are people who are mentally ill-pedafiles, sadists, pornographers...not just the priestly vocation.indybski
jarfrank wrote:
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
8/21/2009 9:36:03 AM
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
jarfrank
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
jarfrank
User Image
drake007 wrote:
If you are "devout" then you are in mass every Sunday and you hear the prayers for victims, support groups, etc. Visit the Archdiocese website and read the stats on abuse claims and look at the the resources they offer for people to either make a claim of abuse, seek support, etc. They are not running away from this; but handing out $ isn't the solution
"This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives."
8/21/2009 9:02:02 AM
If you are "devout" then you are in mass every Sunday and you hear the prayers for victims, support groups, etc. Visit the Archdiocese website and read the stats on abuse claims and look at the the resources they offer for people to either make a claim of abuse, seek support, etc. They are not running away from this; but handing out $ isn't the solution
"This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives."
drake007
If you are "devout" then you are in mass every Sunday and you hear the prayers for victims, support groups, etc. Visit the Archdiocese website and read the stats on abuse claims and look at the the resources they offer for people to either make a claim of abuse, seek support, etc. They are not running away from this; but handing out $ isn't the solution
"This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives."
drake007
TomDunwurkin wrote:
Thousands of cases of abuse from around the world and there are still millions of Catholics pouring money into church coffers to defend it. All of those lost souls subsidizing child molestation and calling it religion. You'd think some of the self-righteous zealots would realize where the money is going and walk away from that Cult organization. Wake up! It's still going on and you are paying the Church to let it happen.
8/21/2009 8:57:09 AM
Thousands of cases of abuse from around the world and there are still millions of Catholics pouring money into church coffers to defend it. All of those lost souls subsidizing child molestation and calling it religion. You'd think some of the self-righteous zealots would realize where the money is going and walk away from that Cult organization. Wake up! It's still going on and you are paying the Church to let it happen. TomDunwurkin
Thousands of cases of abuse from around the world and there are still millions of Catholics pouring money into church coffers to defend it. All of those lost souls subsidizing child molestation and calling it religion. You'd think some of the self-righteous zealots would realize where the money is going and walk away from that Cult organization. Wake up! It's still going on and you are paying the Church to let it happen.TomDunwurkin
User Image
indt1942 wrote:
Replying to OhIam:
Replying to ChiefRose2000:
taking care of these victims of abuse. The blockquote>
u r rite if same okkured in parish they cud not continue if ur priest abuses wot can you do when they close parish we r left without a priest to guide us and look aover us. Stop the payments priests r only human
Learn to write and spell. Can not read a word of this.
8/21/2009 8:01:33 AM
User Image
patrickindyguy wrote:
How do we know the Archdiocese is doing nothing? In many dioceses they offer counseling, offer to pay for counseling and therapy, they offer other things that are directed at helping the person. In Chicago, the Archdiocese does many of the above mentioned things. Some of this may not be publicized for good reason. Victims don't always want to be known, nor do they want to be centers of public media attention, thus group therapy, counseling, etc are not broadcast for everyone to know. My only caution is, one cannot recover from something only by a monetary restitution.
So, the Church doesn't continue to abuse victims. I've heard many times at mass during the intercessions a prayer for victims of sexual abuse.
8/21/2009 7:53:38 AM
How do we know the Archdiocese is doing nothing? In many dioceses they offer counseling, offer to pay for counseling and therapy, they offer other things that are directed at helping the person. In Chicago, the Archdiocese does many of the above mentioned things. Some of this may not be publicized for good reason. Victims don't always want to be known, nor do they want to be centers of public media attention, thus group therapy, counseling, etc are not broadcast for everyone to know. My only caution is, one cannot recover from something only by a monetary restitution.
So, the Church doesn't continue to abuse victims. I've heard many times at mass during the intercessions a prayer for victims of sexual abuse. patrickindyguy
How do we know the Archdiocese is doing nothing? In many dioceses they offer counseling, offer to pay for counseling and therapy, they offer other things that are directed at helping the person. In Chicago, the Archdiocese does many of the above mentioned things. Some of this may not be publicized for good reason. Victims don't always want to be known, nor do they want to be centers of public media attention, thus group therapy, counseling, etc are not broadcast for everyone to know. My only caution is, one cannot recover from something only by a monetary restitution.
So, the Church doesn't continue to abuse victims. I've heard many times at mass during the intercessions a prayer for victims of sexual abuse.patrickindyguy
User Image
wiljo wrote:
Replying to ChiefRose2000:
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
It is simple. If they are not in a continued cycle of abuse they should prove it by opening the documentation and once and for all be held accountable. They have been as guilty as the perps by knowingly moving these animals from one parish to the other. Until then. The Church is an abuser.
8/21/2009 7:49:07 AM
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
It is simple. If they are not in a continued cycle of abuse they should prove it by opening the documentation and once and for all be held accountable. They have been as guilty as the perps by knowingly moving these animals from one parish to the other. Until then. The Church is an abuser. wiljo
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
It is simple. If they are not in a continued cycle of abuse they should prove it by opening the documentation and once and for all be held accountable. They have been as guilty as the perps by knowingly moving these animals from one parish to the other. Until then. The Church is an abuser.wiljo
User Image
Tweddy wrote:
perps always have selective memories while victims remember every iota.
8/21/2009 7:21:45 AM
perps always have selective memories while victims remember every iota. Tweddy
perps always have selective memories while victims remember every iota.Tweddy
User Image
JustTheFactsLady wrote:
While I don't doubt for a second that these people are telling the truth and are real victims, I would struggle with a prosecution with zero physical evidence and 10 year old testimony. Multiple victims with claims against the same individual, as well as physical descriptions of private areas all help, but it's still an uphill battle, not to mention the emotional struggle of testifying.
8/21/2009 6:46:03 AM
While I don't doubt for a second that these people are telling the truth and are real victims, I would struggle with a prosecution with zero physical evidence and 10 year old testimony. Multiple victims with claims against the same individual, as well as physical descriptions of private areas all help, but it's still an uphill battle, not to mention the emotional struggle of testifying. JustTheFactsLady
While I don't doubt for a second that these people are telling the truth and are real victims, I would struggle with a prosecution with zero physical evidence and 10 year old testimony. Multiple victims with claims against the same individual, as well as physical descriptions of private areas all help, but it's still an uphill battle, not to mention the emotional struggle of testifying.JustTheFactsLady
User Image
OhIam wrote:
Replying to ChiefRose2000:
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
u r rite if same okkured in parish they cud not continue if ur priest abuses wot can you do when they close parish we r left without a priest to guide us and look aover us. Stop the payments priests r only human
8/21/2009 6:40:14 AM
User Image
ChiefRose2000 wrote:
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
8/21/2009 2:47:13 AM
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue. ChiefRose2000
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.ChiefRose2000
User Image
nonebetter wrote:
This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives.
8/21/2009 1:19:26 AM
But John Paul II will always have the Achilles Heel of his John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army which will cost him his canonization to sainthood.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090821/NEWS02/908210340/Priest+abuse+hearing+hinges+on+decades-old+memory
Priest abuse hearing hinges on memory, time
By Robert King
Posted: August 21, 2009
* Read Comments(32)
John Doe RG, as he is known in court papers, always struggled with trusting people. Personal relationships usually lasted no more than a year. His second-guessing of his bosses sent him hopping from job to job.But it wasn't until 2003 that his therapist asked him a question that would unravel his life and rattle the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Indianapolis: "Do you have any sexual abuse in your past?""I sat there for a second and it was like a light switch went on," he said in an interview with The Indianapolis Star. "I just remember staring at the bookcase in front of me. I said, 'Yeah, there was an incident with a priest.' "
That memory, unlocked after lying dormant since the mid-1970s, is the subject of a court hearing today in Marion County that will prove critical to the course of John Doe RG's lawsuit against the archdiocese -- a somewhat unusual claim in Indiana because it is based on what psychiatrists refer to as "repressed memories."
The Star generally does not identify victims of sexual assault.
Normally, cases of childhood abuse must be filed by a victim's 20th birthday. But Judge David Dreyer must decide whether to grant an exception for John Doe RG, who filed his at age 40, based on the argument that he had no memory of the abuse until he was 38.
Attorney Patrick Noaker, representing John Doe RG, says the statute doesn't apply when a victim recovers his memory of childhood abuse later in life. He says his client had a two-year window to file the case from the time he recovered the memory, a deadline he beat by three days.
Attorney Jay Mercer, representing the archdiocese, says there's not enough scientific consensus about the concept of repressed memories to grant such an exception to the statute of limitations.
Repressed-memory cases are relatively rare in Indiana, said Henry Karlson, an emeritus professor of law at Indiana University. But state courts have recognized the phenomena and allowed it to be used as a basis for staying, or extending, the statutes of limitation.
John Doe RG, a former altar boy at St. Andrew Catholic Church, said memories came back to him of a priest named Harry Monroe, who John Doe RG says sexually abused him in the church rectory and on camping trips.
Monroe was assigned to parishes in Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Tell City from 1974 to 1984. The lawsuit John Doe RG filed in 2005 was the first of 13 that alleged Monroe was a child molester and that the archdiocese either neglected to protect children or, in some cases, kept the abuse hidden from public view.
Monroe was never prosecuted, because the criminal statutes of limitations had expired. Now out of the priesthood and living in Tennessee, he admitted in a deposition that he sexually molested at least five of the 13 boys who brought allegations. He wouldn't rule out others but said he couldn't remember. One of the cases he wouldn't confirm was that of John Doe RG.Of the 13 lawsuits, John Doe RG's is the only one to involve repressed memories.
To support their positions in the case, both sides have secured Harvard University experts to testify.
The archdiocese has turned to Dr. Harrison Pope, a professor of psychiatry who asserts, according to court documents, that there are serious questions about repressed memories in the scientific community and that there is a lack of consensus on the disorder, which some say is overly diagnosed.
John Doe RG has turned to Dr. James A. Chu, an associate professor of psychiatry, who says the only doubters of repressed memory are those who work in laboratories and aren't treating patients. Among clinicians, he said, there is no real debate. And although there's no biological test for the accuracy of a recovered memory, his experience with those that can be verified has been that they are amazingly accurate.
Until John Doe RG filed his suit, there had been no publicity about Monroe's abuse.
Yet Noaker said the memory he retold bore strong similarities to the dozen cases that would follow -- abuse that took place on camping trips and in St. Andrew's church rectory. His mother also remembered John Doe RG going on camping trips with Monroe.
The recovery of the memories in 2003 sent John Doe RG's life into a tailspin.
Over the course of eight sessions, he said, he began remembering bits and pieces of the abuse.
Throughout his life, he's had an aversion to baby powder. John Doe RG remembered Monroe using baby powder during one of their encounters. Memories came back in other settings, too, even during sex. Things got so bad that John Doe RG, now a 44-year-old business executive who lives out of state, found himself sobbing at his desk at work during the middle of the day.
"At that point, the lid was off Pandora's box," John Doe RG said. "And I looked inside."In today's hearing, the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim.
Mercer said the legal avenues that typically allow a case to go forward so long after the normal statute of limitations has expired don't apply here. He said discovering the abuse late in life has been rejected in Indiana courts as a reason to allow a case involving a childhood injury to go forward. And Mercer said the church can't have concealed information about abuse that the plaintiff didn't remember for 28 years.
Finally, he said John Doe RG waited almost two years to file his lawsuit after recovering his memory. Mercer said Indiana courts require cases to be brought in a "reasonable" amount of time. And some courts have said waiting even 13 months is too long to be "reasonable."
That, said Noaker, the attorney for John Doe RG, is going to be up to the judge to decide.
Comments
jstempko wrote:
They need to weed out the sex perverts BEFORE they go to the seminary. It's a hard life to give up women but they should not turn to little boys.
If found suspicious the Archbishop should fire these guys BEFORE they cause trouble - Multi-Million dollar lawsuits.
Same thing for Nuns.
8/23/2009 8:24:13 AM
They need to weed out the sex perverts BEFORE they go to the seminary. It's a hard life to give up women but they should not turn to little boys.
If found suspicious the Archbishop should fire these guys BEFORE they cause trouble - Multi-Million dollar lawsuits.
Same thing for Nuns. jstempko
They need to weed out the sex perverts BEFORE they go to the seminary. It's a hard life to give up women but they should not turn to little boys.
If found suspicious the Archbishop should fire these guys BEFORE they cause trouble - Multi-Million dollar lawsuits.
Same thing for Nuns.jstempko
otherview2 wrote:
As a victim of sexual abuse by a priest in the Catholic church some 30 some years ago (and I remember all of it) for me to blame my successes and/or failures on what happen since then I believe is wrong. I am accountable for what I did with my life after the abuse. For me to sue the church for what happened that far back in my life for me would be a selfish act of greed and revenge. Where do the Gospel and the word of God fit into this? “For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6: 14)”.
If they are still molesting children, I agree they need to be stopped but to seek revenge on those from year gone and make the whole church suffer is also wrong. Remember it is God who is the final judge and who has the final judgment on all involved in this matter.
8/22/2009 11:10:08 PM
As a victim of sexual abuse by a priest in the Catholic church some 30 some years ago (and I remember all of it) for me to blame my successes and/or failures on what happen since then I believe is wrong. I am accountable for what I did with my life after the abuse. For me to sue the church for what happened that far back in my life for me would be a selfish act of greed and revenge. Where do the Gospel and the word of God fit into this? “For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6: 14)”.
If they are still molesting children, I agree they need to be stopped but to seek revenge on those from year gone and make the whole church suffer is also wrong. Remember it is God who is the final judge and who has the final judgment on all involved in this matter.
otherview2
As a victim of sexual abuse by a priest in the Catholic church some 30 some years ago (and I remember all of it) for me to blame my successes and/or failures on what happen since then I believe is wrong. I am accountable for what I did with my life after the abuse. For me to sue the church for what happened that far back in my life for me would be a selfish act of greed and revenge. Where do the Gospel and the word of God fit into this? “For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6: 14)”.
If they are still molesting children, I agree they need to be stopped but to seek revenge on those from year gone and make the whole church suffer is also wrong. Remember it is God who is the final judge and who has the final judgment on all involved in this matter.
otherview2
JustTheFactsLady wrote:
Replying to TomDunwurkin:
Replying to SarahTX2:
You'd have less raped children if you got rid of the Priests. What a connundrum!
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
A former Pastor of mine once said "That being the Vicar of Christ thing, is a bit**" :)
8/22/2009 8:40:55 AM
You'd have less raped children if you got rid of the Priests. What a connundrum!ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
A former Pastor of mine once said "That being the Vicar of Christ thing, is a bit**" :) JustTheFactsLady
You'd have less raped children if you got rid of the Priests. What a connundrum!ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
A former Pastor of mine once said "That being the Vicar of Christ thing, is a bit**" :)JustTheFactsLady
AnotherSurvivor wrote:
I am also a survivor of priest sexual abuse, and a "John Doe" that has come forth legally. I wish it were easy for me to convey the intense importance of what is occurring right now with the clergy sexual molestation is this country, its laws, and here specifically, Monroe. There is so much incredible fear, confusion with disbelief, mistrust and utter disorientation from clergy sexual molestation that the mind is just left betrayed and so mistrusting that any person, even yourself can barely, if at all, cognate. It is all too surreal to express in any cogent fashion. I hope the courtswill not focus on distractions and outdated laws. I hope the medidcal community will listen to reality. I hope sexual predetors learn that they and the churches that harbor them are held accountable and prosecuted. I want the public to be more aware and sensitive to this crisis, and that other survivors of molestation find a way through this fight towards a peace. Thank you for letting me speak.
8/22/2009 12:23:19 AM
I am also a survivor of priest sexual abuse, and a "John Doe" that has come forth legally. I wish it were easy for me to convey the intense importance of what is occurring right now with the clergy sexual molestation is this country, its laws, and here specifically, Monroe. There is so much incredible fear, confusion with disbelief, mistrust and utter disorientation from clergy sexual molestation that the mind is just left betrayed and so mistrusting that any person, even yourself can barely, if at all, cognate. It is all too surreal to express in any cogent fashion. I hope the courtswill not focus on distractions and outdated laws. I hope the medidcal community will listen to reality. I hope sexual predetors learn that they and the churches that harbor them are held accountable and prosecuted. I want the public to be more aware and sensitive to this crisis, and that other survivors of molestation find a way through this fight towards a peace. Thank you for letting me speak. AnotherSurvivor
I am also a survivor of priest sexual abuse, and a "John Doe" that has come forth legally. I wish it were easy for me to convey the intense importance of what is occurring right now with the clergy sexual molestation is this country, its laws, and here specifically, Monroe. There is so much incredible fear, confusion with disbelief, mistrust and utter disorientation from clergy sexual molestation that the mind is just left betrayed and so mistrusting that any person, even yourself can barely, if at all, cognate. It is all too surreal to express in any cogent fashion. I hope the courtswill not focus on distractions and outdated laws. I hope the medidcal community will listen to reality. I hope sexual predetors learn that they and the churches that harbor them are held accountable and prosecuted. I want the public to be more aware and sensitive to this crisis, and that other survivors of molestation find a way through this fight towards a peace. Thank you for letting me speak.AnotherSurvivor
TomDunwurkin wrote:
Replying to SarahTX2:
You'd have less raped children if you got rid of the Priests. What a connundrum!
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
SarahTX2 wrote:
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.
8/21/2009 3:29:58 PM
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish. SarahTX2
ChiefRose 2000,
How selfish of you. Given a choice between assisting raped children or having your parish, you'd keep your parish. If all the parishioners of Little Flower think like you, we can only hope and pray that your dreadful parish gets closed one way or another. And let's really hope you don't have a school in your predator-friendly parish.SarahTX2
TomDunwurkin wrote:
Well written and to the point. The problem lays within the problem.
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
[/QUOTE]
8/21/2009 1:07:17 PM
Well written and to the point. The problem lays within the problem.
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
[/QUOTE]
TomDunwurkin
Well written and to the point. The problem lays within the problem.
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
[/QUOTE]
TomDunwurkin
SMPTURLISH wrote:
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
8/21/2009 12:47:27 PM
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
SMPTURLISH
The institutional Roman Catholic Church should be beyond counting the financial costs that both justice and charity demand of them. Because they did not follow CANON LAW, CRIMINAL OR CIVIL LAW in the past they are going to have to pay now in all ways.
Dioceses across the country are already paying hundreds of millions of dollars to PR spin firms, lobbyists, and the church lawyers belonging to the prestigious law firms those dioceses have retained for years. Just look at the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, California. More than that, it has been my experience in talking with hundreds of victim/survivors of sexual abuse and their families that money has always been found to enable predatory priests in their perfidy,facilitate criminal acts, obfuscate the truth, while conspiring to harass and intimidate them.
SMPTURLISH
SMPTURLISH wrote:
The institutional church has failed miserably to protect children in the past by operating beyond the pale of both charity and justice while they would have us believe now that they are operating under the ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY they promised in 2002.
However, their ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY appear to be highly selective.
Many dioceses still refuse to list the names and locations of convicted, known or credibly accused priests of their dioceses or of the religious orders who operate in the diocese at their pleasure.
They refuse to support LEGISLATIVE REFORM that would better protect all children by completely removing ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION going forward in regard to childhood sexual abuse AND providing for a civil window of at least two years for bringing forward previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse BY ANYONE!
8/21/2009 12:46:17 PM
The institutional church has failed miserably to protect children in the past by operating beyond the pale of both charity and justice while they would have us believe now that they are operating under the ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY they promised in 2002.
However, their ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY appear to be highly selective.
Many dioceses still refuse to list the names and locations of convicted, known or credibly accused priests of their dioceses or of the religious orders who operate in the diocese at their pleasure.
They refuse to support LEGISLATIVE REFORM that would better protect all children by completely removing ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION going forward in regard to childhood sexual abuse AND providing for a civil window of at least two years for bringing forward previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse BY ANYONE! SMPTURLISH
The institutional church has failed miserably to protect children in the past by operating beyond the pale of both charity and justice while they would have us believe now that they are operating under the ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY they promised in 2002.
However, their ACCOUNTABILITY & TRANSPARENCY appear to be highly selective.
Many dioceses still refuse to list the names and locations of convicted, known or credibly accused priests of their dioceses or of the religious orders who operate in the diocese at their pleasure.
They refuse to support LEGISLATIVE REFORM that would better protect all children by completely removing ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION going forward in regard to childhood sexual abuse AND providing for a civil window of at least two years for bringing forward previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse BY ANYONE!SMPTURLISH
SMPTURLISH wrote:
IT WAS DONE IN DELAWARE AND IT CAN BE DONE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.
Too many church leaders are trying to squirm out of their responsibility by hiding behind laws that have been woefully inadequate to protect of children to begin with, that they did not observe in a timely fashion anyway, and now have the chutzpah to cite the same laws in order to escape responsibility.
JUSTICE LIKE CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME. IT DOESN'T STOP THERE BUT IT SURE DOES START THERE.
The Holy See was an original signatory to the UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD.
Isn't it time to start acting as if this document were believed? Or is it still the same old -
DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com
8/21/2009 12:45:23 PM
IT WAS DONE IN DELAWARE AND IT CAN BE DONE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.
Too many church leaders are trying to squirm out of their responsibility by hiding behind laws that have been woefully inadequate to protect of children to begin with, that they did not observe in a timely fashion anyway, and now have the chutzpah to cite the same laws in order to escape responsibility.
JUSTICE LIKE CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME. IT DOESN'T STOP THERE BUT IT SURE DOES START THERE.
The Holy See was an original signatory to the UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD.
Isn't it time to start acting as if this document were believed? Or is it still the same old -
DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com SMPTURLISH
nathanial66 wrote:
If all the child molesting Catholic Priests were rounded up, there wouldn't be enough Catholic Priests left to "head" the Catholic Churches!!
8/21/2009 12:43:08 PM
If all the child molesting Catholic Priests were rounded up, there wouldn't be enough Catholic Priests left to "head" the Catholic Churches!! nathanial66
If all the child molesting Catholic Priests were rounded up, there wouldn't be enough Catholic Priests left to "head" the Catholic Churches!!nathanial66
TomDunwurkin wrote:
It is the entire Church and everyone that tithes the Catholic church, you can include everyone the gives in any monetary way to the Church. Much of it is all funnelled to defending the thousands, (yes, thousands over the years) of "men of the cloth", that have use religion and their position in the church to abuse mankind. I've said it before and it still stands - there are millions of Catholics who blindly go through life, without lifting their voice to this poisoning of their own denomination. They believe throwing money at the church will buy their place in heaven. Been there, done that, I know! Millions of Catholics who spend their hour or two in church each week, only to leave and cuss at the driver in the lot in front of them and talk about the woman in the next pew who's dress was too short.
DO NOT CONNECT THESE FIENDS with Christianity. They themselves continue to pave their way to their own reward. Can I get another Amen?
8/21/2009 12:35:33 PM
It is the entire Church and everyone that tithes the Catholic church, you can include everyone the gives in any monetary way to the Church. Much of it is all funnelled to defending the thousands, (yes, thousands over the years) of "men of the cloth", that have use religion and their position in the church to abuse mankind. I've said it before and it still stands - there are millions of Catholics who blindly go through life, without lifting their voice to this poisoning of their own denomination. They believe throwing money at the church will buy their place in heaven. Been there, done that, I know! Millions of Catholics who spend their hour or two in church each week, only to leave and cuss at the driver in the lot in front of them and talk about the woman in the next pew who's dress was too short.
DO NOT CONNECT THESE FIENDS with Christianity. They themselves continue to pave their way to their own reward. Can I get another Amen? TomDunwurkin
It is the entire Church and everyone that tithes the Catholic church, you can include everyone the gives in any monetary way to the Church. Much of it is all funnelled to defending the thousands, (yes, thousands over the years) of "men of the cloth", that have use religion and their position in the church to abuse mankind. I've said it before and it still stands - there are millions of Catholics who blindly go through life, without lifting their voice to this poisoning of their own denomination. They believe throwing money at the church will buy their place in heaven. Been there, done that, I know! Millions of Catholics who spend their hour or two in church each week, only to leave and cuss at the driver in the lot in front of them and talk about the woman in the next pew who's dress was too short.
DO NOT CONNECT THESE FIENDS with Christianity. They themselves continue to pave their way to their own reward. Can I get another Amen?TomDunwurkin
Helpmeagain wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church may be the only institution in history to have survived such a pervasive culture of abuse, cover-up and denial! It's especially distastful because the very men that have ruined so many lives have used religion, Christianity and a previously good reputation to perpetrate their dirty deeds. When will people wake up and realize that the highest levels of the church in Philly, Boston and possibly Indianapolis have looked the other way while lives have been ruined? It's immoral and likely criminal!
8/21/2009 11:29:06 AM
The Roman Catholic Church may be the only institution in history to have survived such a pervasive culture of abuse, cover-up and denial! It's especially distastful because the very men that have ruined so many lives have used religion, Christianity and a previously good reputation to perpetrate their dirty deeds. When will people wake up and realize that the highest levels of the church in Philly, Boston and possibly Indianapolis have looked the other way while lives have been ruined? It's immoral and likely criminal! Helpmeagain
The Roman Catholic Church may be the only institution in history to have survived such a pervasive culture of abuse, cover-up and denial! It's especially distastful because the very men that have ruined so many lives have used religion, Christianity and a previously good reputation to perpetrate their dirty deeds. When will people wake up and realize that the highest levels of the church in Philly, Boston and possibly Indianapolis have looked the other way while lives have been ruined? It's immoral and likely criminal!Helpmeagain
User Image
jarfrank wrote:
Replying to indybski:
Replying to jarfrank:
faith.
So, married men never cheat? Never break their vows? Never abuse young boys? No, marriage for Catholic priests to avoid abuse is not logical.
1st Corinthians - chapter 7 - look it up. My comment has nothing to do with adultery, that is a separate issue. Sure there are men out there that are married and are pedifiles. However, the abuse to young boys seems to be very problematic for the catholic church. #1 The problem has been identified - priest have been malesting and abusing young boys. #2 A possible solution - allow priests to be married. The bible tells you that it is extremely difficult to not have a mate - this (among other bible verses) makes my argument extremely logical. The church used to allow its priest to be married.
8/21/2009 11:13:48 AM
1st Corinthians - chapter 7 - look it up. My comment has nothing to do with adultery, that is a separate issue. Sure there are men out there that are married and are pedifiles. However, the abuse to young boys seems to be very problematic for the catholic church. #1 The problem has been identified - priest have been malesting and abusing young boys. #2 A possible solution - allow priests to be married. The bible tells you that it is extremely difficult to not have a mate - this (among other bible verses) makes my argument extremely logical. The church used to allow its priest to be married.faith.
So, married men never cheat? Never break their vows? Never abuse young boys? No, marriage for Catholic priests to avoid abuse is not logical.
jarfrank
1st Corinthians - chapter 7 - look it up. My comment has nothing to do with adultery, that is a separate issue. Sure there are men out there that are married and are pedifiles. However, the abuse to young boys seems to be very problematic for the catholic church. #1 The problem has been identified - priest have been malesting and abusing young boys. #2 A possible solution - allow priests to be married. The bible tells you that it is extremely difficult to not have a mate - this (among other bible verses) makes my argument extremely logical. The church used to allow its priest to be married.faith.
So, married men never cheat? Never break their vows? Never abuse young boys? No, marriage for Catholic priests to avoid abuse is not logical.
jarfrank
User Image
SNAPnetwork wrote:
Fourth, if (& that’s a big IF) any parish is closing anywhere that's in any way connected with pedophile priests & complicit church officials, it's the pedophile priests & complicit church officials who are the cause, not the brave victims who are coming forward to seek justice, expose predators, protect kids, & make the church a more healthy & safe institution.
Fifth, all kinds of "older cases" come before courts these days. Under President George W. Bush, the US Dept. of Justice set up a special task force to investigate & pursue criminal charges against racists in the deep South who hurt civil rights volunteers in the 1950s & 1960s. More than a dozen such criminals have been convicted. So let's not assume that criminals who conceal child sex crimes can't, or shouldn't, be subject to criminal probes.
David Clohessy, National Director, SNAP-Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, 7234 Arsenal Street, St. Louis MO 63143, 314 566 9790 cell, SNAPclohessy@aol.com, SNAPnetwork.org
8/21/2009 11:12:40 AM
SNAPnetwork wrote:
Let's clear up a few myths here.
First, some parishes in Boston are closing. But it's because of declining attendance, fewer priests, “white flight,” suburban sprawl, & many other sociological & demographic factors that pre-date & are independent of the church’s on going clergy sex abuse & cover up crisis.
Second, Catholic officials are incredibly secretive about church wealth & finances. So bishops can claim their costs are increasing for ANY reason & there’s no independent oversight that can prove or disprove what they’re saying.
Third, the overwhelming majority of clergy sex abuse settlements are covered by insurance policies that bishops have paid for decades ago.
8/21/2009 11:11:33 AM
Let's clear up a few myths here.
First, some parishes in Boston are closing. But it's because of declining attendance, fewer priests, “white flight,” suburban sprawl, & many other sociological & demographic factors that pre-date & are independent of the church’s on going clergy sex abuse & cover up crisis.
Second, Catholic officials are incredibly secretive about church wealth & finances. So bishops can claim their costs are increasing for ANY reason & there’s no independent oversight that can prove or disprove what they’re saying.
Third, the overwhelming majority of clergy sex abuse settlements are covered by insurance policies that bishops have paid for decades ago. SNAPnetwork
Let's clear up a few myths here.
First, some parishes in Boston are closing. But it's because of declining attendance, fewer priests, “white flight,” suburban sprawl, & many other sociological & demographic factors that pre-date & are independent of the church’s on going clergy sex abuse & cover up crisis.
Second, Catholic officials are incredibly secretive about church wealth & finances. So bishops can claim their costs are increasing for ANY reason & there’s no independent oversight that can prove or disprove what they’re saying.
Third, the overwhelming majority of clergy sex abuse settlements are covered by insurance policies that bishops have paid for decades ago.SNAPnetwork
hrhhrh wrote:
Regarding repressed memory: I have a friend who was raped and molested by his father, the organist and other members of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral in Pittsburgh, when he was a toddler. He had no memory of this until about age 40 when he saw a fact-based movie of a boy (Steven Stayner) who was kidnapped by a pedophile and kept prisoner for seven years. Then, horrific images and memories began to emerge, causing him unspeakable suffering and pain. No therapist was involved until some years later. The memories emerged without coaching of any kind.
In the intervening years he has learned much about his father, the organist and others involved. He has no doubts about what happened and who did those monstrous things to him.
I have know him since he was a college student. He was living a happy, successful life until he saw that movie. Since then, he has become a physical and emotional wreck. My heart bleeds for him.
Repressed memory IS real.
8/21/2009 11:08:56 AM
Regarding repressed memory: I have a friend who was raped and molested by his father, the organist and other members of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral in Pittsburgh, when he was a toddler. He had no memory of this until about age 40 when he saw a fact-based movie of a boy (Steven Stayner) who was kidnapped by a pedophile and kept prisoner for seven years. Then, horrific images and memories began to emerge, causing him unspeakable suffering and pain. No therapist was involved until some years later. The memories emerged without coaching of any kind.
In the intervening years he has learned much about his father, the organist and others involved. He has no doubts about what happened and who did those monstrous things to him.
I have know him since he was a college student. He was living a happy, successful life until he saw that movie. Since then, he has become a physical and emotional wreck. My heart bleeds for him.
Repressed memory IS real. hrhhrh
Regarding repressed memory: I have a friend who was raped and molested by his father, the organist and other members of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral in Pittsburgh, when he was a toddler. He had no memory of this until about age 40 when he saw a fact-based movie of a boy (Steven Stayner) who was kidnapped by a pedophile and kept prisoner for seven years. Then, horrific images and memories began to emerge, causing him unspeakable suffering and pain. No therapist was involved until some years later. The memories emerged without coaching of any kind.
In the intervening years he has learned much about his father, the organist and others involved. He has no doubts about what happened and who did those monstrous things to him.
I have know him since he was a college student. He was living a happy, successful life until he saw that movie. Since then, he has become a physical and emotional wreck. My heart bleeds for him.
Repressed memory IS real.hrhhrh
wowww wrote:
There is much MISINFORMATION from bloggers here from not actually reading what others have said or telling mistruths. For the person responding to letting priest marry, NO ONE mentioned anything about marriage to cover up abuse. T the person who said thousands of priests have abused is not true either. There have been many cases, but exaggerating facts is a lie. For the nut who suggested the "victim" is being abused by the Church (3 decades later no less) for not paying restitution is a result of irrational thinking that revenge will in some way make things better. I say to those who have zero involvement whatsoever, YOU seek a form of therapy to resolve whatever drives your need to feel so emotionally attached to something that doesn't involve you. How "devout" of a Christian can you really be and be a member of any religion, Catholicism not withstanding and make hateful comments you've made?
8/21/2009 10:57:19 AM
There is much MISINFORMATION from bloggers here from not actually reading what others have said or telling mistruths. For the person responding to letting priest marry, NO ONE mentioned anything about marriage to cover up abuse. T the person who said thousands of priests have abused is not true either. There have been many cases, but exaggerating facts is a lie. For the nut who suggested the "victim" is being abused by the Church (3 decades later no less) for not paying restitution is a result of irrational thinking that revenge will in some way make things better. I say to those who have zero involvement whatsoever, YOU seek a form of therapy to resolve whatever drives your need to feel so emotionally attached to something that doesn't involve you. How "devout" of a Christian can you really be and be a member of any religion, Catholicism not withstanding and make hateful comments you've made? wowww
There is much MISINFORMATION from bloggers here from not actually reading what others have said or telling mistruths. For the person responding to letting priest marry, NO ONE mentioned anything about marriage to cover up abuse. T the person who said thousands of priests have abused is not true either. There have been many cases, but exaggerating facts is a lie. For the nut who suggested the "victim" is being abused by the Church (3 decades later no less) for not paying restitution is a result of irrational thinking that revenge will in some way make things better. I say to those who have zero involvement whatsoever, YOU seek a form of therapy to resolve whatever drives your need to feel so emotionally attached to something that doesn't involve you. How "devout" of a Christian can you really be and be a member of any religion, Catholicism not withstanding and make hateful comments you've made?wowww
wowww wrote:
Frankly, the Church should NOT be liable for actions of renegade priests decades after the fact. I question the motive(s) after 3 decades in this case of filing a lawsuit (and waiting until 3 days before the end of the 2 year statute of limitations to do so is really suspect). I also question statute of limitation laws that give one person a different set of limitations than another for the same acts. Evil is a two way street evidently.
8/21/2009 10:43:20 AM
Frankly, the Church should NOT be liable for actions of renegade priests decades after the fact. I question the motive(s) after 3 decades in this case of filing a lawsuit (and waiting until 3 days before the end of the 2 year statute of limitations to do so is really suspect). I also question statute of limitation laws that give one person a different set of limitations than another for the same acts. Evil is a two way street evidently. wowww
Frankly, the Church should NOT be liable for actions of renegade priests decades after the fact. I question the motive(s) after 3 decades in this case of filing a lawsuit (and waiting until 3 days before the end of the 2 year statute of limitations to do so is really suspect). I also question statute of limitation laws that give one person a different set of limitations than another for the same acts. Evil is a two way street evidently.wowww
indybski wrote:
Replying to jarfrank:
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
So, married men never cheat? Never break their vows? Never abuse young boys? No, marriage for Catholic priests to avoid abuse is not logical.
8/21/2009 9:42:38 AM
indybski wrote:
The "Church", with a capital "C", in Roman Catholic terms, is the Family of God. As a whole, we are NOT abusers. There have been priests, to be sure, and perhaps even religouis sisters, who abused children in their care, and the history of handling of those cases has obvioulsy been poor. I would never defend the administrative decisions that were made, except to say that 25 to 40 years ago, our understanding of adult predatory behavior was not what it is today. For example, during WWII, the family doctor told my grandmother to take up smoking to calm her nerves when her son, my dad, was taken POW in northern Italy. Today, of course, we would sue for malpractice, since we know smoking is so unhealthy. Back then, we just did not know. So, accuse an entire Religion of abuse is wrong. What is also forgotten in this discussion is, that in every "occupation" or vocation, there are people who are mentally ill-pedafiles, sadists, pornographers...not just the priestly vocation.
8/21/2009 9:37:38 AM
The "Church", with a capital "C", in Roman Catholic terms, is the Family of God. As a whole, we are NOT abusers. There have been priests, to be sure, and perhaps even religouis sisters, who abused children in their care, and the history of handling of those cases has obvioulsy been poor. I would never defend the administrative decisions that were made, except to say that 25 to 40 years ago, our understanding of adult predatory behavior was not what it is today. For example, during WWII, the family doctor told my grandmother to take up smoking to calm her nerves when her son, my dad, was taken POW in northern Italy. Today, of course, we would sue for malpractice, since we know smoking is so unhealthy. Back then, we just did not know. So, accuse an entire Religion of abuse is wrong. What is also forgotten in this discussion is, that in every "occupation" or vocation, there are people who are mentally ill-pedafiles, sadists, pornographers...not just the priestly vocation. indybski
The "Church", with a capital "C", in Roman Catholic terms, is the Family of God. As a whole, we are NOT abusers. There have been priests, to be sure, and perhaps even religouis sisters, who abused children in their care, and the history of handling of those cases has obvioulsy been poor. I would never defend the administrative decisions that were made, except to say that 25 to 40 years ago, our understanding of adult predatory behavior was not what it is today. For example, during WWII, the family doctor told my grandmother to take up smoking to calm her nerves when her son, my dad, was taken POW in northern Italy. Today, of course, we would sue for malpractice, since we know smoking is so unhealthy. Back then, we just did not know. So, accuse an entire Religion of abuse is wrong. What is also forgotten in this discussion is, that in every "occupation" or vocation, there are people who are mentally ill-pedafiles, sadists, pornographers...not just the priestly vocation.indybski
jarfrank wrote:
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
8/21/2009 9:36:03 AM
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
jarfrank
This is why catholic priests should be allowed to marry. God intended us to have a mate - not doing so can lead to this behavior. The catholic church should reconsider its policy - several hundred years ago priests could marry.
How terrible that "the archdiocese isn't challenging the truthfulness of John Doe RG, just his legal claim." Also that this priest has confessed to molesting children but since the victims are adults the statue of limitations has expired. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the system treats these victims. I'm sure it isn't a easy to come forward as a victim in these situations. I'm not catholic, but I consider myself a Christian. It's stories like this that can make non-believers very skeptical of the Christian faith.
jarfrank
User Image
drake007 wrote:
If you are "devout" then you are in mass every Sunday and you hear the prayers for victims, support groups, etc. Visit the Archdiocese website and read the stats on abuse claims and look at the the resources they offer for people to either make a claim of abuse, seek support, etc. They are not running away from this; but handing out $ isn't the solution
"This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives."
8/21/2009 9:02:02 AM
If you are "devout" then you are in mass every Sunday and you hear the prayers for victims, support groups, etc. Visit the Archdiocese website and read the stats on abuse claims and look at the the resources they offer for people to either make a claim of abuse, seek support, etc. They are not running away from this; but handing out $ isn't the solution
"This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives."
drake007
If you are "devout" then you are in mass every Sunday and you hear the prayers for victims, support groups, etc. Visit the Archdiocese website and read the stats on abuse claims and look at the the resources they offer for people to either make a claim of abuse, seek support, etc. They are not running away from this; but handing out $ isn't the solution
"This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives."
drake007
TomDunwurkin wrote:
Thousands of cases of abuse from around the world and there are still millions of Catholics pouring money into church coffers to defend it. All of those lost souls subsidizing child molestation and calling it religion. You'd think some of the self-righteous zealots would realize where the money is going and walk away from that Cult organization. Wake up! It's still going on and you are paying the Church to let it happen.
8/21/2009 8:57:09 AM
Thousands of cases of abuse from around the world and there are still millions of Catholics pouring money into church coffers to defend it. All of those lost souls subsidizing child molestation and calling it religion. You'd think some of the self-righteous zealots would realize where the money is going and walk away from that Cult organization. Wake up! It's still going on and you are paying the Church to let it happen. TomDunwurkin
Thousands of cases of abuse from around the world and there are still millions of Catholics pouring money into church coffers to defend it. All of those lost souls subsidizing child molestation and calling it religion. You'd think some of the self-righteous zealots would realize where the money is going and walk away from that Cult organization. Wake up! It's still going on and you are paying the Church to let it happen.TomDunwurkin
User Image
indt1942 wrote:
Replying to OhIam:
Replying to ChiefRose2000:
taking care of these victims of abuse. The blockquote>
u r rite if same okkured in parish they cud not continue if ur priest abuses wot can you do when they close parish we r left without a priest to guide us and look aover us. Stop the payments priests r only human
Learn to write and spell. Can not read a word of this.
8/21/2009 8:01:33 AM
User Image
patrickindyguy wrote:
How do we know the Archdiocese is doing nothing? In many dioceses they offer counseling, offer to pay for counseling and therapy, they offer other things that are directed at helping the person. In Chicago, the Archdiocese does many of the above mentioned things. Some of this may not be publicized for good reason. Victims don't always want to be known, nor do they want to be centers of public media attention, thus group therapy, counseling, etc are not broadcast for everyone to know. My only caution is, one cannot recover from something only by a monetary restitution.
So, the Church doesn't continue to abuse victims. I've heard many times at mass during the intercessions a prayer for victims of sexual abuse.
8/21/2009 7:53:38 AM
How do we know the Archdiocese is doing nothing? In many dioceses they offer counseling, offer to pay for counseling and therapy, they offer other things that are directed at helping the person. In Chicago, the Archdiocese does many of the above mentioned things. Some of this may not be publicized for good reason. Victims don't always want to be known, nor do they want to be centers of public media attention, thus group therapy, counseling, etc are not broadcast for everyone to know. My only caution is, one cannot recover from something only by a monetary restitution.
So, the Church doesn't continue to abuse victims. I've heard many times at mass during the intercessions a prayer for victims of sexual abuse. patrickindyguy
How do we know the Archdiocese is doing nothing? In many dioceses they offer counseling, offer to pay for counseling and therapy, they offer other things that are directed at helping the person. In Chicago, the Archdiocese does many of the above mentioned things. Some of this may not be publicized for good reason. Victims don't always want to be known, nor do they want to be centers of public media attention, thus group therapy, counseling, etc are not broadcast for everyone to know. My only caution is, one cannot recover from something only by a monetary restitution.
So, the Church doesn't continue to abuse victims. I've heard many times at mass during the intercessions a prayer for victims of sexual abuse.patrickindyguy
User Image
wiljo wrote:
Replying to ChiefRose2000:
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
It is simple. If they are not in a continued cycle of abuse they should prove it by opening the documentation and once and for all be held accountable. They have been as guilty as the perps by knowingly moving these animals from one parish to the other. Until then. The Church is an abuser.
8/21/2009 7:49:07 AM
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
It is simple. If they are not in a continued cycle of abuse they should prove it by opening the documentation and once and for all be held accountable. They have been as guilty as the perps by knowingly moving these animals from one parish to the other. Until then. The Church is an abuser. wiljo
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
It is simple. If they are not in a continued cycle of abuse they should prove it by opening the documentation and once and for all be held accountable. They have been as guilty as the perps by knowingly moving these animals from one parish to the other. Until then. The Church is an abuser.wiljo
User Image
Tweddy wrote:
perps always have selective memories while victims remember every iota.
8/21/2009 7:21:45 AM
perps always have selective memories while victims remember every iota. Tweddy
perps always have selective memories while victims remember every iota.Tweddy
User Image
JustTheFactsLady wrote:
While I don't doubt for a second that these people are telling the truth and are real victims, I would struggle with a prosecution with zero physical evidence and 10 year old testimony. Multiple victims with claims against the same individual, as well as physical descriptions of private areas all help, but it's still an uphill battle, not to mention the emotional struggle of testifying.
8/21/2009 6:46:03 AM
While I don't doubt for a second that these people are telling the truth and are real victims, I would struggle with a prosecution with zero physical evidence and 10 year old testimony. Multiple victims with claims against the same individual, as well as physical descriptions of private areas all help, but it's still an uphill battle, not to mention the emotional struggle of testifying. JustTheFactsLady
While I don't doubt for a second that these people are telling the truth and are real victims, I would struggle with a prosecution with zero physical evidence and 10 year old testimony. Multiple victims with claims against the same individual, as well as physical descriptions of private areas all help, but it's still an uphill battle, not to mention the emotional struggle of testifying.JustTheFactsLady
User Image
OhIam wrote:
Replying to ChiefRose2000:
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
u r rite if same okkured in parish they cud not continue if ur priest abuses wot can you do when they close parish we r left without a priest to guide us and look aover us. Stop the payments priests r only human
8/21/2009 6:40:14 AM
User Image
ChiefRose2000 wrote:
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.
8/21/2009 2:47:13 AM
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue. ChiefRose2000
I disagree with the idea that the Archdiocese is continuing to abuse these victims. The Church is caught in the situation of trying to balance protecting funds to keep parishes open and serving those congregations and taking care of these victims of abuse. The Church has reached out with offers of counseling and other assistance. The law provides for a defense and I feel it is wise for the Church to avail itself of the protections of the law. The Archdiocese of Boston has had to close many parishes because of million dollar payouts of the priest abuse scandal. If the same were to occur here, I'm sure my own parish of Little Flower and many others could not continue.ChiefRose2000
User Image
nonebetter wrote:
This makes me sick - the Archdiocese continues to try to abuse these victims even more by not giving them some kind of restitution. Harry Monroe did terrible things to these boys who are now men - the Archdiocese needs to take responsibility and stop this abuse and Harry Monroe needs to be put in jail! The Catholic Church has named this next year as "The Year of the Priest" - they should change that and make it the "Year of the Victims" and seek forgiveness. I am a devout Catholic and I am sickened by this whole situation and pray that it will all be resolved in due time and that the victims can find some peace in their lives.
8/21/2009 1:19:26 AM
posted by Paris Arrow | Thursday, August 27, 2009
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
<< Home